The first time that Costantino Della Gherardesca he began to be interested in art when he was a music journalist: “After meeting a large number of musicians I got a bit bored, so I discovered this other world full of hippies much more interesting and much more fashionable than fashion itself. There I got a passion for contemporary art “, says Costantino on the phone from his home in Milan, busy writing the latest episodes of Artifacts, the weekly podcast produced by Kidney Bingos e made together with the art critic Francesco Bonami in which the conductor tries to understand what is authentic and fake in the artistic currents of yesterday, today and tomorrow (note in the margin, all the works cited in the podcast, available on all digital platforms, are collected who).
“It’s a world full of crazy, hypocritical, capricious, spoiled characters, full of divas and ugly people. As usual, I am fascinated by this kind of French theatrical piece full of intrigue and nuances “insists Costantino who, together with Bonami, met a year ago on the occasion of the presentation of one of his books, forms a perfect couple that has already conquered thousands of listeners eager to devour the new episodes of the podcast, the first that Della Gherardesca has decided to make.
How can the success of the operation be explained?
“To be honest, I didn’t expect it because of the theme: I’m really happy with the feedback because, with Francesco, we tried to deal with contemporary art, a difficult topic for the general public, in an original and fun way, talking about artists who normally they are not covered by the Italian newspapers ».
Where does the idea come from?
“From the friendship with Bonami who, partly because of Covid and partly because I am single, has become very strong. I felt alone, and you know that there is nothing more beautiful in life than finding a new friend. We both like to eat and drink, we have the same sense of humor, we are cynical and hypochondriac. We could only join forces to divulge an art that, otherwise, would not be divulged anywhere else in Italy ».
Bonami says you are “the most spendthrift and inexperienced collector on the planet.” Do you recognize yourself in this definition?
«Considering the money I have, I’m not so naïve, otherwise I wouldn’t be able to afford the art I buy, which is only experimental. This thing makes Bonami laugh, because it is certainly not an investment: if the thieves stole one of my works, they would lose us in petrol ».
A work that you have that you are particularly fond of?
“There are several, I buy based on what I like: there are many rich people who buy the pieces and then keep them in the silos in Monte Carlo. I, on the other hand, look at them and enjoy them. Collecting pieces of art allows me to go away from my everyday life and to travel, which, in fact, is what I miss in this period ».
Contemporary artists are important, but those considered classics are essential: have you seen the miniseries on Leonardo?
“No but, on the other hand, following all the rules, last summer I visited the Caravaggio exhibition in Rome and I can say that it was spectacular, also because Caravaggio made a true historiographical operation in his works, contextualizing everything and offering different levels of interpretation. . Leonardo, for me, is extremely fascinating for his way of seeing the world very similar to that of a man who lived hundreds of years later, Gregory Bateson, an anthropologist. After all, Leonardo was this: an anthropologist scientist ».
You mentioned Caravaggio and I can’t help but think about the joke about politically correct he made in the episode of Artifacts dedicated to sex: do you think an artist-killer like him would be successful today?
«Caravaggio was such an extraordinary artist that, even if he were erased from the culture of respectable society, he could paint his works in a vault because they would be rediscovered and appreciated a hundred years later. This cancel culture thing has existed for millennia, it is nothing new: even Leibniz had been ostracized for his religious theories other than the current ones. There are many artists, philosophers and writers who have been discriminated against and whose lives have been ruined because they were doing things that were unbecoming for the time, especially in the sphere of ethics and religion ».
In short, cancel culture is cyclical.
“It’s strange that people don’t remember that. I think of Harry Partch, a total genius of music who for years was treated like a bum simply for having lived a few years before the hippies revolution of the 1960s and 1970s, but also of Heidegger, who for a long time was considered a Nazi until when a former Jewish student of his, Hannah Arendt, was unable to rehabilitate him: before her he had been erased from the books of philosophy and history as if he had never existed ».
From art with Artifacts to the luxury of his latest book released shortly before the first lockdown, this year he rediscovered expensive passions or am I wrong?
“My work in entertainment serves to subsidize my private passions, which are art and comic writing. There are a lot of people who work on TV and then go and shoot documentaries with the money but I, unlike some of them, love TV because it is a means of psychoanalysis, a branch of continental philosophy and sociology. It’s all the same world. “
In what sense is TV psychoanalysis?
«Because we must try to anticipate the reactions and wishes of the public in a contiguous way. It is important to understand the differences between the public of Naples and that of the Aosta Valley because we cannot ignore this to make TV: when I will do the next one Beijing Expressin fact, I will make sure that the cast makes all the archetypes of the Italian public happy ».
Do you confirm to me, therefore, that she will lead him?
“Yes, even if I don’t know when and where it will be done, since we don’t know anything about Covid. In its own way, if we think about it, Beijing Express is an outreach program like Artifacts. David Mamet, a great screenwriter and director, says entertainment shouldn’t be snubbed because it’s about keeping people. In this historical moment, then, we all have an attention deficit, bombarded as we are by the choices of the series on Netflix, video games, journalism and politics programs: being able to hold back attention means performing a miracle “.
Returning to entertainment, perhaps even his disguises a Dancing with the Stars they can be considered an artistic expression.
“They can’t be considered art because I’m a great clown, but they had ideas behind them. Of course, many did not understand them: even if one in five thousand people managed to decipher the twisted messages that were behind my ballets, I consider it a goal ».
The twisted message you are most proud of?
“When I disguised myself as mozzarella and tomato with Modugno’s nineties techno base in response to the jury who told me that I was not national-popular enough”.
I was hoping the crab would answer me.
“I loved the crab madly, a childish thing, an entertainment for the public. I would not have been able to compete with the beautiful people who passed me: I told myself that if I had done the usual things I would not have gone anywhere, and that is why I had the possibility to choose the costumes and the music that I wanted in the contract. I wanted. Milly, who is one of the few people who understands me, had the open mind to let me do everything I wanted in prime time on Raiuno, and I will never thank her enough for that ».
It was not taken for granted, in fact.
“Everyone thinks she’s a conservative, but she was in one of the first gay prides in history in Los Angeles in the 1980s.”
After Dancing e The masked singer, will you still work together?
«I will never abandon Milly: she is a lady, a real human affection has been created between me and her and not those usual television friendships where everyone says they love each other when it’s not true. She knows she can count on me and I know I can count on her. If I think back to my last year, two special people come to mind: Milly Carlucci and Francesco Bonami ».
In the meantime, we are all still in semi-lockdown. What are you clinging to right now?
«I am listening to many podcasts on Indian philosophy and I do online courses on this subject which, if we think about it, is very linked to art since the critics are philosophers. I spend my time like this, reading and organizing my future projects ».
(Opening photo by Francesca Turrin)
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