Maurizio Cattelan: “And now silence”

This article is published in Vanity Fair issue 28-29 on newsstands until July 20, 2021

Maurizio, the last job you made in Milan, the middle finger of the vaffan… in Piazza Affari. Now it’s time for the return, with a great exhibition set up at the Pirelli HangarBicocca. More or less serious than before?
“Wiser. Ten years older … Let’s say more mature, but always with shorts. In five years maybe I will be of age ».

How does an artist come of age?
“You have to get a little deaf. Look, but stop listening ».

Listen to what?
“The background, that noise that is useless.”

What did one year in exile in Costa Rica teach you?
“If you can look at something for more than a day, this thing starts talking; if you look at it longer, it becomes part of you. We have learned that we do not need everything we used to have around us ».

Did you realize that many people were also unnecessary?
“But no! If anything, the opposite: we understand that people need more time from us ».

Another banality?
“Friends are like plants, they must be watered, if you don’t water them they die and you won’t find them again”.

How are we doing in personal relationships?
“Few but good. And yours? .

Good but few. You retired, but quickly changed your mind.
“That’s not true, it took me almost ten years to get back home, including eight years of shit. Very interesting years, where I was able to experience things that I never could in art
to do. The toilet paper, the “toilet paper”, helped me to clean up what was not necessary ».

However, you have succeeded in a rare feat for an artist: transforming shit into popular icons while remaining inside the market, forcing people like me to change their minds.
“I’ve always been the first to be surprised.”

Surprised of what?
“I came from a world that had nothing to do with the world of art. I got lost on the street, went into a gallery and found myself working as an artist. I’ve always been surprised that there were people who found what I did interesting enough to buy it, or even just show it. ‘

Now it seems to me that we are rotten enough …
“Come on, now I don’t do that much shit … I’ve become a little more constipated.”

I would say that you have become like David Koresh, the leader of the Waco sect, in the United States: you have managed to brainwash even the most unbelievers, you have created a cult.
“He was on a higher level, I don’t think I’m that convincing. Koresh was a washing machine, I still wash by hand ».

Have you ever wanted to be a painter or have you ever envied real artists?
«In front of the blank canvas I tremble like the classroom theme. I do not know where to start. Space scares me less ».

So when you decide to work on a work where do you start?
“It doesn’t matter where you start, the important thing is to know when you’re doing the wrong thing.”

We could say that your artwork is like the wrong Negroni, with prosecco instead of gin or vodka. Do you consider yourself an influencer?
“But how can you influence someone with your work?”

The banana you stuck to the wall in Miami a few years ago seems to me a pretty clear example. By the way, you told me you did it just because it unnerved you having seen so many painters’ exhibitions in New York …
«I thought that someone had to give an answer to so much oil painting… Indeed, more generally, it was a response to all the excess that surrounded our lives».

What relationship do you have today with that work and its meaning?
“I don’t remember doing it. And when someone points this out to me, I feel like I’m talking about something that dates back to a million years ago. I don’t understand why people are
freaked out like that. I wonder how viralism works, an image that becomes unstoppable in a week… impossible to study at a table ».

Do you want me to believe that when you conceived the banana you thought that no one would spin it?
“I thought it would be a inside joke destined for the world of art “.

Not so joke…
“A bit like Manzoni’s famous artist shit, which if it had had the Web would have had the same impact.”

I don’t think so, the banana is universal, without any negative value. But let’s get to the Milan exhibition, what a top secret. The title is Breath Ghosts Blind, «I breathe ghosts blind”. Let’s start with the first element: do you do breathing exercises?
“I swim to synchronize it.”

Ah… What level of spirituality do you attribute to yourself?
“Scarsino”.

Are you venal?
“It’s just that I’m afraid of facing that dimension, just as I’m not a great lover of abstract painting. When I think about spirituality, my family always comes to mind, which was terribly religious. When I was twelve I was rejected and it was a real trauma. My parents thought there was something sick in my spirit, but before they made a decision on how to cure me I chose to volunteer as a stretcher bearer in Lourdes. Well, maybe one thing I would like to go back to doing today is volunteering. Just as a reminder that there are other people who have nothing to do with us. Taking a few hours of the day and dedicating them to someone else, rather than giving money, which is a passive way of helping. Time is something much more precious than money… ».

You did not answer my question: are you venal?
“If you work it is important that people pay, nothing worse than people who want your job for free. On this I am uncompromising. Then I do what I want with it, money
what a profit, but if someone asks me to do a job, whatever it is, I want to be paid ».

Cryptocurrencies and the frontier of digital art, or NFTs, non-fungible tokens, are very fashionable in these times. You are one who has always thought about the way that their works could function outside their physical dimension, as images. What do you think of this art that practically does not exist?
«It is a way to make something authentic, anything, in a world where everything can be reproduced and falsified. I don’t care if it’s art or not: what is art is art
in a gallery? Boh… ».

Let’s go back to the exhibition. We talked about “breath” and “spirit”. And the “blind man”? Let’s shoot another sensational banality: isn’t it that today we are all a bit blind, by dint of seeing and showing everything? Today we have made even the soul pornographic.
«It would be so sexy, much sexier, to hide something…».

Are you saying we should expect a sexy show?
“It will be a silent exhibition, with great breaks, like one of those dinners that one would like to end soon because no one has anything to say anymore.”

An exhibition where you say nothing?
“Rather! I hope it says a lot more than what you see ».

An exhibition where are you hiding?
«No, an exhibition where I let the viewer enter a space that becomes in some way psychological».

Have you become a psychoanalyst? After all, you have always stimulated paranoia and collective fears.
“Beautiful! Where did you read it?”.

Does the viewer come out depressed?
“I’ll come out with big question marks. But I can’t even figure out how to get out of this exhibition. I get rid of a very heavy thing ».

Gee, you are creating an excruciating suspense! Are you afraid it’s crazy shit?
“No. What interests me is perception, in the hope that it will not be misinterpreted ».

Do you think I will like it?
“It’s a job that had to be seen. Whether you like it or not, it makes no difference. I don’t think you can slaughter me any more than you have in the past. ‘

«Loving each other means never having to say“ I’m sorry ”…».
«Francesco… Together is a beautiful place to be…».

Photo ALBERTO ZANETTI

To subscribe to Vanity Fair, click here.